Terry Allen (the Lubbock-born artist and musician) and I have been friends for a long time. I wrote to him about a lecture I went to:
Hey
Went to hear Sam Harris (The End of Faith — YOUR recommendation, remember?) at the 42nd St. library. I expected some demonstrators, hecklers...but I guess NYorkers are pretty Godless already — they cheered him on.
He was “in discussion” with an Oliver McTernan, “author and the director of Forward Thinking, an NGO involved in conflict resolution in the U.K. and Middle East, [he] is also a broadcaster for the BBC, and a former priest. He will challenge the claims set forth in Harris’s new book, Letter to A Christian Nation. Is Harris a secular fundamentalist reflecting the mindset he rejects? Does his American perspective have relevance elsewhere in the world? Like the religious right, is he an anti-pluralist?"
Oliver was a sweet as could be — like a gentle Father O’Malley from some old movie. Lilting Irish accent. Spends his time in Somalia and Gaza trying to get folks to get along, so he made an awfully “nice” counterpoint to Harris’s blunt suggestions that that all religious peoples of the Book are basically dangerous lunatics, and that nice guys like Oliver are just a mask for the nastiness that lies behind. One look at Oliver and his work and you wonder, how can this guy possibly be bad? (But I remember Irish Catholics sold girls into slavery within recent memory, prohibited birth control of all types, sent missionaries to destroy foreign cultures in the name of Jesus — probably still do — etc. etc. …so, all the nice Father O’Malleys in the world have a lot to answer for, if you ask me.)
McTernan’s retort to Harris was that yes, all Muslims, for example, are not the violent women-oppressing devils that Harris points at. No, many, in Gaza, Somalia and elsewhere, where he struggles daily, are probably just like the gentle little old Irish ladies who simply go to mass on Sundays and observe Xmas, Easter, etc...and apparently wouldn’t hurt a fly. (I made the Irish connection, not him.) And for them their religion is a source of strength and continuity with the past. A grounding and maybe even something spiritual. But Harris rightly (I thought) pointed out that though these individuals might be benign, all the books — the Koran, the Torah and the Bible — are intolerant, and are filled with violence and hatred. If these people are “good”, it is no reflection or credit to their religion — maybe their local culture and community have more influence on their behavior than their religions. I tried to read the so-called good book some years ago and found it a litany of suffering, hatred, honor killings, scores settled and general nastiness — with the rare edict to be good thrown in — couldn’t finish it — if I want horror I’ll stick with Cormack, who at least is a better writer. (Better than God! — now there’s a press blurb!)
The NYorkers were much more familiar with Harris than Oliver, so it was a bit of an unfair fight — Oliver didn’t have his cheering section to back him up.
That said, it was a good talk to witness. I enjoyed The End Of Faith, though he did go down some roads that I thought he should have avoided. The justification of torture, for one. At least that’s how I read it. He quotes Dershowitz’s thought experiment that if a bomber in custody had information that could save 1000s and if torturing him could get that information, then wouldn’t torture be justified? My response is, yes, it would be — but sadly that situation never ever occurs. I would be willing to bet that none of the valuable information obtained that has saved any lives has been through torture. Torture, it has been proved time and time again, produces unreliable and pretty much useless information, therefore no information at all, therefore no saved lives — so the thought experiment has no relevance in the real world. Sadly, the fact that 90% of the people being tortured are innocent can’t be used to counter the thought experiment, but that fact sure has an effect in the world — as predicted many times, the U.S. behavior has been the perfect recruiting tool for terrorists and has alienated what friends we had left. The torture, even if it as save a few lives, has put millions at risk. [The U.S. congress just voted to continue torture as a policy — many democrats voted for this, too.]
Terry Allen’s reply:
All this torture talk in the news makes me crazy...the waterboarding thing is the same Khmer Rouge murder shit. & “We only do it to get information”...oh, right. I don't think anyone ever tortured anybody for any reason other than revenge or pure sadistic pleasure...which is probably the same thing. Everything else is just an excuse. Harris is smart enough to know that...maybe he's got a Buddhist mean-streak running through his karma alarma bama-lama ding dong? Whatever...I agree. The “torture one to save a thousand” theory is deep and dumb with fantasy.
You're lucky to get to hear such a discussion though...the only thing they've had here [Santa Fe] lately is a workshop dissecting the music of Yawni...that and a lecture on the use of spinach leaves as a massage rub so you don't have to throw it out because of the deadly echo-lie. Not particularly riveting. I wonder why Bill Mahr hasn't had Harris on? Or the Simpsons?
The good book was a force-read for me...vacation bible and Sunday school tribulation. We weren't supposed to chew gum in the sacred glow of the class...no smacking around Jehovah. Had one teacher, banker by day...prick by Sunday, who reached right in my mouth, pulled out the gum and put it behind my ear then pushed my ear, gum and all, into the side of my hair. Bless the little children.
